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Heya :)
I'm new to Tribe and was excited to see a Vodou section. I've been researching Vodou lately and have grown rather fascinated by it. I've been a Wiccan since I was 12 (Scott Cunningham got me started). Lately, Wicca seems stale to me and I've been wanting more of a passionate spirituality. That is when Vodou seemed to pop out of nowhere.
I was wondering how common is it for someone to be solitary and practice it? I live in the middle of rural Michigan of all places. I feel like I could blend it with Witchcraft easily.
Thoughts?
Merci,
Jason
I'm new to Tribe and was excited to see a Vodou section. I've been researching Vodou lately and have grown rather fascinated by it. I've been a Wiccan since I was 12 (Scott Cunningham got me started). Lately, Wicca seems stale to me and I've been wanting more of a passionate spirituality. That is when Vodou seemed to pop out of nowhere.
I was wondering how common is it for someone to be solitary and practice it? I live in the middle of rural Michigan of all places. I feel like I could blend it with Witchcraft easily.
Thoughts?
Merci,
Jason
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Re: Solitary Vodou
Wed, July 29, 2009 - 7:09 AMHi, Jason,
I am a Witch who uses elements of Afro-Caribbean Paganism in her practice and spirituality. Yes, it can be a passionate and loving celebration....and many of these elements CAN blend creatively with other aspects of Witchcraft and/or Wicca.
That being said, Vodou as a religion is very much taught through the community and exists as part of a people's heratige and must be respected as such. It contains elements of African spirituality, Native American spirituality, and the spirituality of many European immigrants to the Caribbean area.
I suggest the book __Voodoo and Afro-Caribbean Paganism__by Lilith Dorsey and Isaac Bonewits as in introduction to the subject from people who consider themselves Neo-Pagans. You can find Lilith here on Tribe:
people.tribe.net/lilithdorsey
...Although her profile hasn't been updated since 2007.
More and more celebrations of Vodou and Afro-Caribbean Paganism have been happening at Pagan events. I'm sure some of the people here might be able to let you know when and where they will be. :-) -
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Re: Solitary Vodou
Wed, July 29, 2009 - 10:07 AMHi Jason, nice to see some fresh blood around here, no sacrificial pun intended.
I think Maggie gave you some good info. I, like her, am a bit of an eclectic, though my roots are not in Wicca or Witchcraft. My personal practice is very influenced by Vodoun practices and ideas as well as Ceremonial Magick and Indonesian practices. One point i must stress though is that Vodou is an initiatory experience as well as a community one, so i would say that no, one cannot really fully "practice" Vodou as a solitary. Books are great introductions, but there is so much that you will never learn in a book. A couple more books i would recommend though would be Divine Horsemen by Maya Deren and Mama Lola by Karen Brown. But if your intention is to fully immerse yourself in Vodou then you should seek out a mambo or houngan.
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Re: Solitary Vodou
Wed, July 29, 2009 - 7:22 PMAwww, thanks for the advice and such, I appreciate it. I've read Glassman's "Vodou Visions" and I just really want to do stuff with it.. But I do not want to do anything that could be disrespectful to the Loa. I'd like to be taught Vodou but living in Michigan is not helping. I've looked for a Vodou society here and there appears to be nothing. I have found one in Pennsylvania (Of all places).
I'd like to do services to the Loa and begin working with them, I just worry if that is the wrong thing to do. It's like I have these little itches begging to be scratched and the more you ignore it, the more they itch. Good itching, haha. ;)
~Jason -
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Re: Solitary Vodou
Wed, July 29, 2009 - 7:43 PMHey Jason, being in Michigan sandwiches you between Chicago and Detroit. I am pretty sure that you can find something going on in either of those 2 cities. If you want this you should probably prepare yourself for the inevitability of at least a little bit of travel. :-D
I think that i am familiar with the hounfour in Pennsylvania. They have a pretty extensive website with some pretty good info.
I have found that when the loa want "in" in your life they will find a way. There are many way that you can begin working with them without initiation and i don't believe that it is the "wrong" thing to do. If and when intiation becomes necessary i am sure that your little itches will no doubt get bigger. ;-> -
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Re: Solitary Vodou
Mon, August 3, 2009 - 10:31 AMI am solitary and actively study the art !
Love
Nobu + -
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Unsu...
Re: Solitary Vodou
Wed, August 5, 2009 - 8:56 AMHey Jason! : ) I'm from Detroit and there is a few, and I mean very few people or places that support our beliefs, its so deep underground you have to be connected some kind of way, lucky for me its in my fam, but if you need some help send me a message.
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Re: Solitary Vodou
Thu, August 13, 2009 - 12:06 PMNo, Vodun is best practiced by those who come by it by familial means. It is difficult to practice it alone. Vodun is connected to one's ancestry. I do not define it as a religion but as a "spiritual system". The dynamics are extremely involved. The spirits themselves are at the center of vodun. It is they that control it not us!
Wedosi -
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Re: Solitary Vodou
Thu, August 13, 2009 - 12:47 PMUnderstood' but there are those that come by the Vodun through plants and ritual' and get taught by the Lwa'
The spirits guide' through dream and trance'
There is only one family' the Lwa'
I practice solitary' the Lwa treat me well' I am respectful to their requests and those of Nfumbe and Eggun'
I see no problems practicing alone'
Know thyself'
Be well
Nobu +
It is always good to have a good mentor :))) the rest comes with practice'
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Re: Solitary Vodou
Thu, August 13, 2009 - 7:11 PMAnd also... should you be an initiate to practice? -
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Re: Solitary Vodou
Thu, August 13, 2009 - 8:25 PMPa' to Lo PaPa Gede Nganga'
Nganga Nobuoni + -
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Re: Solitary Vodou
Thu, August 13, 2009 - 11:16 PMIMHO Vodou is best practiced by those whom the Loas call. I think it is really that simple.
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Re: Solitary Vodou
Fri, August 14, 2009 - 6:33 AM>...should you be an initiate to practice?
There are many paths in Vodou. Here is what one Society (the Gade Nou Leve Society) recommends:
___But am I on the right path?___
Many individuals jump into a tradition that they do not fully understand, only to later find out that there is another that would have been better suited for them. It is easy to get confused, or to leap before really researching because there are so many traditions within the Caribbean. To top it all off, most of these traditions do not feature English as their native language, making research by English speakers that much more difficult.
There are a variety of paths within the Caribbean traditions, and for each and every person in the world there exists the right path just for him or her. I am going to describe a couple of different traditions, which are closely related to Vodou. I have been initiated in them since a young age, and thus know about them quite extensively. Now these traditions, if you understand them, may be better suited for you. I will also be outlining some things you can ask yourself so that maybe you can better decide which path to walk, and live happily as a successful, joyful, and content human being.
Let me name and describe the traditions, about which so little information is actually available, so that you may be able to find the path that is best for you:
Espiritismo de La Mesa Blanca: This is Spiritism. At its most basic level, it invokes God and the Positive Spirits to divinate for and assist the person. There is the use of a table covered with a white cloth, a large bowl full of water, and a crucifix. There are no initiations into this tradition and people work together at gatherings called Misas.
Sanse: Sanse is a cross between Spiritism and the 21 Divisions (see below). In this tradition, the dead and the Lwa (or Misterios) are worked with spiritually. There is an initiation called a Bautizo (Baptism) and people work with all sorts of different spiritual tableaus, or frameworks. If you would like to know more about this tradition click here
Dominican Vodou: Also known as the 21 Divisions. This is working with the Lwa/Misterios in the form that they are known and served within the Dominican Republic. This tradition has three levels of initiation, but these initiations do not serve the same purpose they do in other traditions. If you would like to know more about this tradition click here
Haitian Vodou: This is working with and serving the Lwa as traditionally known in Haiti. In this tradition, people are initiated and have set rules and regulations. If you would like to know more about this tradition click here
___Where do I belong?___
Here I will give you general guidelines that will help you decide which tradition is the right path for you to take.
__You should consider Mesa Blanca if:___
You are a medium.
You work independently.
You don't feel a need to identify your spirits.
___You should consider Sanse if:___
You desire to elevate yourself spiritually.
You have a connection with your spirits.
You have spirits that come from an array of different locations (for example Gypsies, Orichas, Lwa, Arabs, Chinese Spirits, etc)
You want to elevate and work with all your
spiritual tableaus or frameworks.
You don't want to depend on an initiator to teach you.
You don't mind working alone, or prefer it.
You don't like strict rules and regulations.
You are self reliant.
___You should consider 21 Divisions if:___
You desire to work with the Dominican Mysteries or feel that you are being called to them.
You don't want to totally depend on an initiator to teach you, but you do want someone who you can go to if you need help.
You want some example as to how it's done, but still desire flexibility.
You want the Spirits to teach you.
You do not want to travel to Haiti.
___You should consider Haitian Vodou if:___
You feel as though you are being called by the Lwa of Haiti.
You like a set form on how to do things. (i.e. tradition)
You are good at following rules and regulations.
You are good at working in groups.
You are willing to study hard.
You understand the need for structure.
www.ezilikonnen.com/vodou/ri...path.html
Keep in mind that one doesn't have to be a part of any group in order to honor and serve the Loas.
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Re: Solitary Vodou
Fri, August 14, 2009 - 11:04 AMMaggie..... I LUUUVVVV UUUU... you're the best babe..... Thanx ;-)
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Re: Solitary Vodou
Fri, August 14, 2009 - 11:09 AMNice' Thank you Maggie'
Sanse -
Sanse is a tradition of Spiritism that is mixed with other influences. In this tradition, Haitian and Dominican Vodou are mixed with Espiritismo de La Mesa Blanca. This tradition is geared towards elevating all of the spiritual tableaus and frameworks that an individual may have with him or her.
A spirit is a body of energy that is supposed to evolve in order to become better. You are a spirit, encased in a body. A spiritual tableau or framework are various and distinct spirits that become close to a person. Through this person they are able to work and act within the physical world. Spiritual tableaus and frameworks are made up of all sorts of entities that can be from many different places. For example Arabs, Chinese, Africans, Indians, etc. Within a spiritual tableau and framework there will be a variety of Evolved and Non-Evolved spirits.
Non-Evolved spirits are known as Dark Spirits, Holdback Spirits (holds the person back in their evolution), Trial Spirits, Dragging Spirits (drags the person through life) etc. These are spirits that have yet to evolve, thus they do not desire to leave the physical and material things. They do not want to follow the laws of the spiritual world. They desire to live through the body of those whom they attach to. Thus they use the body of the individual to reach their pleasures. People knowing the non-evolved state of these spirits also use them for bad magic. These Spirits need a lot of light.
Everyone has a spiritual guide. Those who dedicate themselves to spiritual evolution often know who their guide is. As that individual lives life with love, mercy, and generosity, so will the guide evolve and receive light as well, whether the individual knows and serves the guide or not. Those who live by greed, hatred, and evil, cause not only themselves to be set back spiritually but their guide as well. People who have sacrificed their life to be able to evolve spiritually and have communication with their guides and their spiritual tableaus and frameworks are known as mediums. Thus they labor to perform charity and mercy wherever it needs to be done. The medium is the instrument of his spiritual tableau and framework in its spiritual labor and evolution.
Mediums come in a variety of grades. There are many types, and many levels of evolution. They can be those who become possessed. Others can see (divinate). Others hear the spirits. Then there are those who communicate through automatic writing, others remove causes (things that cause a problem in a person's life), others heal, and some have a variety of these skills combined in several ways.
Mediums must evolve physically and spiritually; thus they reach new levels of power and light. Through The Three Virtues of Faith, Hope, and Charity, much evolution can be achieved, but they must also evolve their manner of thinking and doing things. One who evolves in one and not the other will still be held back.
Initiation into Sanse speeds up the spiritual evolution of the individual. It also assists in making that person a better medium for their spiritual tableau and framework. Also, initiation removes Cause Spirits, which cause the medium to be held back from his or her further evolution.
Cause is the word that refers to what holds us back in life. In this tradition, there are no coincidences, there are causes. Different types of spirits often cause problems for us within life because they are non-evolved. Some things we have caused ourselves as well, through the Law of Cause and Effect.
Sanse is different from Mesa Blanca in that it also deals with Loas or Misterios, as they are known. There are various forms of these spirits known in different parts of the world, such as in the Dominican Republic, Haiti, and Africa. Within Sanse, a variety of new Loa (Lwa) show up. They are very quick to apply solutions, much faster than other spirits. The initiation into Sanse is a process in which one starts to receive communication and foundation from these entities. These entities come to reinforce and give power to the spiritual tableau and framework of an individual. Thus these ceremonies are much more complicated than Mesa Blanca Spiritism.
+NM+
Nobu + -
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Re: Solitary Vodou
Fri, August 14, 2009 - 11:47 AMThis has got to be the strangest set of conversations I have ever heard. Vodun is so much more than what you folks are proposing. Have any of you ever been in a Vodun temple? There is no solitary worship of Vodun. Where are you guys getting this stuff from?
Wedosi -
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Re: Solitary Vodou
Fri, August 14, 2009 - 12:01 PMHi Wedosi, if its not too much... could you please share what this is all about?
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Re: Solitary Vodou
Fri, August 14, 2009 - 12:41 PMWedosi, i completely understand your concerns here. It is obvious that you come from a rather orthodox background in regards to Vodou. But it is also obvious that Vodou also is many things to many people. I say this with all due respect to tradition. Of course then we need to ask, which tradition. There is Vodou in Benin, there is Vodou is Haiti, there is Vodou in The Dominican Republic, there is Vodou in New Orleans, there is Vodou in Canada. All these places where Vodou travels it changes, it adapts, it absorbs, it is reborn. You will even find different traditions of Vodou existing in the very small space of Haiti. Different Loas, different traditions of worship. But the core values remain. Tradition should never be disrespected. But it also should not become a stone around our necks. Some traditions are always current. Some apply only to their specific time and place.
So which traditions are "right". What is the "true" Vodou. I think that if we seriously address this question the Loas might just split a gut laughing at us. The bottom line is this: if you are initiated into a specific form of Vodou, into a particular Hounfour, then that is the "true" Vodou for you. You follow the rules and dogma and you grow spiritually within it. But don't automatically dismiss or disregard the practices of others.
As for solitary worship, i understand your point here. For me Vodou is a community practice as well. I am a drummer and what am i without the dance and song? However, as i pointed out before, when the Loas want to come into our lives they do. This is regardless of whether it not we have community to support the experience, regardless of our familial connections, regardless of our skin color. If we are separated from community we do what we can to serve the spirits. Is it "practicing" Vodou? Well perhaps not from your perspective. But this is not a forum for Vodou initiates only. I am sure that there are many here who indeed have not been to a Hounfour or experienced a Vodou service. This is a place to discuss Vodou in both specific and general terms that we all might come to a better understanding of how best to grow spiritually and give service. I hope you will stick around because you can provide a unique perspective. But i hope that you can do that while keeping an open mind to the practices of others. :-) -
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Re: Solitary Vodou
Fri, August 14, 2009 - 1:15 PMWhen you live amongst those that have no clue of the Lwa' work with the Lwa yourself' learn from the Lwa'
There is no place to commune' join of other spirits in a dance'
There is study and work though' questions asked and answered'
Does this make me incompitent within my Art'
I would say to the contrary'
My solitary studies have taught me much about the invisible' of which I am able to pass onto others' with them needing no idea of what is happening'
Here you mention "Voudun" folks say "Black Magic"
You say Palo Mayombe" they have no clue of Palo'
Does this make me a poor Palero a poor Voudisant because I practice alone' ???
Each of us have a spiritual path' we have Eggun guiding' if we wish' we can access many "Entities" Nfumbe' Nkisi' "Micro-cosms" "Spirits" Lwa' realms' etc' the list is endless'
It is my solitary works that have taught me' my listening to the spirits that has honed my art'
When it comes to Palo & Voudun' I am demonster' there is always more to learn' more to do' works to be done' people to help'
This is my life' Palo & Voudun' the relationship I have is natural'
Maybe I do things different from you' but the base form is the same' the spirits guiding are the same' I use the same rituals and ceremonies' Mambos' salutations'
E’ Con Lo Licencia' Lo Sarabanda Mayombe..
E’ Con Lo Licencia, De mi Tata Gede NGanga Mayombe..
Is good enough for me' all the Gedes are laughing their heads off' asking for hard liquer and cake' Sarabanda spits on the floor and does a swift dance' then asks for "Hot food"
We know of who we are'
We got here together'
We are never alone :)))
Pa' to Lo Zarabada Nganga
Pa' to Lo PaPa Gede Nganga
Pa' to Lo Nobu Nganga
Nsala Malekun Malekun Nsala
Nobu Nganga +
Keep Tracking the Love'
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Re: Solitary Vodou
Fri, August 14, 2009 - 11:59 AMVery enlightening post Nobu... and also inspirattional in the sense that I learned so much that can be applied to my life.... Thanx and many many blessings ;-) -
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Re: Solitary Vodou
Fri, August 14, 2009 - 2:14 PMI have no worries about you Nobu. Keep doing exactly what you do. :-) -
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Re: Solitary Vodou
Fri, August 14, 2009 - 2:50 PMKiambote Nechesh'
You spoke good words brother' so I thought to clarify myself'
There is no resisting these spirits' thay all are very demanding :)))
Malembe to interferences !!
Malekun Nsala
Nobu + -
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Re: Solitary Vodou
Fri, August 14, 2009 - 3:17 PMAh, Nobu....you said a mouthful! :-\d -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: Solitary Vodou
Fri, August 14, 2009 - 3:25 PMhehehe Just my Zarabanda'
Take no offence :)))
Be well
+NM+
Nobu +
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Re: Solitary Vodou
Sat, August 15, 2009 - 5:55 AMFrom one of my favorite sites:
"Today over 60 million people practice Vodun worldwide."
www.religioustolerance.org/voodoo.htm
This is a fact. I doubt if all those people went for a formal initiation. I do respect those who go through the traditional paths. And I also greatly respect that this religion is a tribal one (some say "shamanic tribal") that honors, especially, the Ancestors of the people from certain parts of Africa and the Americas.
Another fact is....we all come from African ancestors. We are all Her children.
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Re: Solitary Vodou
Sat, August 15, 2009 - 11:25 AMOne cannot truly know vodun unless one has been initiated. That is why there are so many misconceptions about it. It is bought on by folks who simply do not understand it. It is a "spiritual system" with the voduns... which means sacred (spirits) in Fon... at its center. The term lwa is Congolese. When the slave trade occured many of its devotees transplanted this system to other parts of the world. Because Christanity was encouraged and vodun discouraged many of its rituals etc. were lost. Also with the many different tribes and languages rituals metamorphed into other things. I am not here to criticize anyone. That is not my mission. But, as a priestess of Vodun, initiated in Africa I am simply trying to give the benefit of my experiences and knowledge of this particular spiritual system. Many people claim to serve vodun but actually do not. If the spirits do not know you then how can you serve them. That is what initiation does. It knocks down the wall that separates the physical and the spiritual world that they (the voduns) may influence you and you influence them. Not only that ; but, it may NOT be someone's destiny to serve vodun. Those of us with familial vodun were actually born to our stations. Some think it is a religion to be joined. It is anything but. The IFA/FA/AFA (the West African divination system) determines our relationship with vodun... whether we are a mere worker for vodun, a vodunsi, or a priest/priestess of vodun. This spiritual system is strongly linked to those of African ancestry. But, it does not mean that all of African ancestry are servers of vodun.
Wedosi -
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Re: Solitary Vodou
Sat, August 15, 2009 - 12:37 PMWedosi, peace and respect to you. I certainly can see your way of understanding Vodou. You were initiated in Africab and you stand at the root of this great tradition. But surely you must understand that this tradition has changed as it has spread around the world through the diaspora. The Vodou that you were intiated into in Africa is not the same Vodou that is practiced in Haiti were the traditions of all these different tribes merged with the practices of the Awarak Indians and Catholicism. Haitian Vodoun has also absorbs parts of Western occultism through the influence of Masonry and other Western secret societies. It has white Loas like Maman Brigette. This is surely not a case of African ancestry. Vodou spread to the continent and New Orleans Voodoo has it's own flavor, Loas unknown anywhere it's been before and a further mixing of black and white cultures. It is an ever changing system.
Now i do agree with you. Vodou can never be fully understood by the uninitiated. Of course any branch of Vodou that one is initiated into is going to have it's own separate secrets. I still believe that the actual "current" has some consistency, but the difference will be there and agruing over who has the "true" Vodou is pure nonsense. But even though initiation is necessary to fully understand the complete system of Vodou that you are studying i must disagree with you that the uninitiated cannot serve the spirits or have connections with them, especially the more "archetypical" Loas such as Papa Legba, Damballah, the Ezilis, Ogou or the Baron. These spirits know me because i have reach out to them when i heard their call. I have played for them with my drum and helped bring them into physical manifestation. And just as all Africans are not called by the Loas to Vodou, not all white people are called to Christianity. It's not a matter of "joining the religion". It's a matter of listening and following ones Will. -
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Re: Solitary Vodou
Sun, August 16, 2009 - 11:05 AMMy dear, I have no arguments with YOU! In fact, I commend you that you are a drummer for vodun! That is wonderful! However, the key to what I am saying is wraped up in understanding the "spirits" themselves. They are at the "center" of vodun; and, they are the same today, yesterday and forever. They are "divine beings" and do not change! What has changed is us! In Africa, we know the ancestral and the universal voduns (lwas). There are many types of spirits. As we traveled, as slaves, in the diaspora those who died and became divine made up our local spirits (lwa); but, our ancestral and universal spirits have ALWAYS been there and they are the same. Taking the same sacrifices and requiring the same devotion since the beginning of time. All of us are born of a spirit. All of us have a part of the divine within us. I am no authority on the divine will of the spirits. I must live each day and use them as my light into the darkness. But I know that if one is suppose to belong them and serve them....they "themselves" will put that person on a path of service....no matter who their ancestors might be. Please forgive me if I am not addressing all of your questions. I tend to stick to my own path.:)
Wedosi -
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Re: Solitary Vodou
Sun, August 16, 2009 - 12:15 PMWedosi wrote:
". As we traveled, as slaves, in the diaspora those who died and became divine made up our local spirits (lwa); but, our ancestral and universal spirits have ALWAYS been there and they are the same."
So please....can you expand on the difference between those you define as Lwa ("Local Spirits") and the ancestral and universal spirits? I would appreciate knowing your way of discerning each of these. I ask this not for any other reason except my deep interest and respect.
(Perhaps we could start a new thread about this....?)
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Re: Solitary Vodou
Mon, August 17, 2009 - 8:04 AMI can't answer for Wedosi, but hopefully she will add her own wisdom on your questions later. But she is drawing a line between universal spirits (what i referred to earlier as "archetypical" Loas) and ones that you only find specific to different areas. Loas such as the Marassa, Papa Legba, Damballah and Ayida Wedo, Ogou and others you will find in the Vodou tradition wherever it is found. They are deep at the root of the practice and often represent loftier concerns and ideals. Most of the Petwo spirits came about in Haiti, IMO, out of a dire need for more fiery and, perhaps, violent spirits that were to be of great importance to the revolution that threw off the chains of slavery there. Vodou is constantly adding new Loas to it's system as those who do great things in life are venerated and in some cases elevated to that status. In New Orleans you will find that Dr. John and Marie Laveau are very popular Loas. Obviously these were once living people who are now seen as Loas. The "archetype" Loas, it seems to me, are more directly connected to the source of the energies that they present and represent, but in many ways i believe the people might have a stronger connection to some of these more local spirits depending where you are. -
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Re: Solitary Vodou
Mon, August 17, 2009 - 10:40 AMI basically agree with you, Nechesh. From my experience, it seems that certain Ancestors can actually take on Archetypal and Natural Energies. For instance, Oya, in the Santeria pantheon. Oya is said to be the Yoruba goddess of the Niger River, personifying that River. However, She has merged with the archetypal energy of swift change and refreshing exhuberance as the Orisha of strong wind and lightning!
Caroline Casey (one of my mentors--who was initiated into Santeria by the profound Santero, Enrique Sosa, as a daughter of Yemaya, and beloved step-daughter of Oya) describs Oya as: "the goddess of change, a syncretized Uranus Trickster-Pluto transformer of poison combo Intelligence." In her book about Astrology, Caroline sees Oya as an example of Uranian energy and prays to Her thusly:
"Let the winds of change blow through my life, bringing the most radically enlivening thing that could possibly happen. I am hoisting my sails. Parasail me into the place where I can connect with my allies, and together we can do the most good." (Casey) She opens her radio show (every week) with a song to Oya!
www.coyotenetworknews.com/produ...ow.htm
Here's a great thread on Oya, if anybody is interested:
tribes.tribe.net/darkgodde...455d6881f9
As I contempate dying myself, I think about perhaps watching over my family from the Spirit World. I also think about merging my energies with that of Nature. I don't think the 2 are always mutually exclusive. ;-)
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Re: Solitary Vodou
Mon, August 17, 2009 - 12:17 PMI will try to explain as best I can. I must explain, however, from the position of the FON people who are MY ancestors. I am AGASSOU. One's ancestry is an integral part of this. In the beginning we have always had the Creator. In Fon we call him/her Mawu/Lissa. This is a male/female duality. But just like the Hindu...we believe that Mawu/Lissa gave certain spirits dominion over certain things. These spirits being a part of the great creator his/herself. These spirits come from all over the world. The great SAKPATA from Benin....The patron of the ground inwhich we walk. The great Egun gun from Nigeria...The great Mami Wata from the Mina people and the ancestor Lampon etc. etc. All of these spirits are manifestations of the great Creator (Mawu/Lissa). The one who created all of mankind and the planets and the earth. Mawu/Lissa predates all and the various manifestations of him/herself. These are the universal spirits! They give life!
In vodun we believe that a child is born when an ancestor wants to be remembered. The ancestor cannot give life; so, he goes to a universal spirit and makes a bargain with that spirit that it may give the child life. It promises that the child will serve that spirit throughout its life for the protection of this spirit. Therefore each child is born in rememberance of a particular ancestor but carrying within itself a part of the "divine". As ancestors and/or people die they too in certain circumstances may become divine after a period of time. I will give an example: I was at a chamba ceremony. This vodun was inherited by me from my mother's people....the Ashanti. These spirits are Muslim.
At the ceremomy one spirit came and spoke to me through a translator. He said that he died during the time of human sacrifice. He was the one who caught and prepared the sacrifice. When he himself died... they took a human sacrifice and covered his body in the sacrificial
blood with other such rituals and he became a vodun....that which is sacred in Fon. Also, after 41 years of death certain people may also ascend to vodun status under the proper ceremonies and/or circumstances. In addition, those of the diaspora....Haiti for instance... had a very traumatic history, those who died and who ascended and became vodun, in this region, bare the trauma and personalities of the region and those times. They are local voduns. But the universal voduns pre-date them.
Voduns that are specific to New Orleans or the Americas would be local as well. How many of these or if any at all would ascend to universality...I do not know. But, their powers are different. However, the ancestral voduns are very special. They are linked to the Creator's very first creations. And, they have a unique relationship with the Creator. The things that I mention here are not to be found in books. They are conversations I have had with vodun or African priests. In addition to being an African priestess....I am married to an African priest.
Wedosi -
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Re: Solitary Vodou
Mon, August 17, 2009 - 2:13 PMI don't think anbody here would take argument with what you have written her Wedosi, though i will say that nothing here, other than your own very personal account of the spirit who came to you is particularly new to me. Whether i read it in books or it is just common knowledge that the spirits have shared with me, i do not know. I think you are right on with this post, but these are no untold secrets here.
I realize that you are wrestling with some of the attitudes about practice that you have read hear and i understand that completely from your orthodox background. But what you must take into account here is that this is an extremely eclectic community. My own path is formed from knowledge gained from Vodou (books, discussions with houngans and mambos, actual exposure to ceremony, drumming for the spirits, internal contact), Santeria (books, drumming for ritual, devotional singing), Western ritual magic (books, experimentation, constant daily practice of rituals), Malay magic (books, direct contact with ceremonial objects, etc) and Entheogenic Shamanism (eperimentation, experimentation, experimentation ;->). Others come from different backgrounds. Our paths are all different, but we all merge here for love of the Loas. We all have our own unique ways of connecting with the Loas and indeed serving them. Sometimes those ways hover outside the house of the traditional. Personally i find it extremely important to always give a considerable amount of weight to Tradition. However, it is probably true that i will never take kanzo (though i learned long ago never to say never :-)). I enjoy my eclectic path and the connections i have formed with many different types of spiritual energies. I have found that it is futile to argue with people about who holds the "right" traditions and practices. I have discovered that results are the far more important that the exact path that one follows to get there.
I would love to hear as much as you feel you can possible share with us about the nature and practice of your tradition, but i am not will to discard the experience and real life results of those who have chosen alternative paths to the established traditions to make these connects and serve the spirits. Again, i am not an initiate, but i have no doubts whatsoever that the Loa are a very important part of my life. Someday they might just convince me to serve them in a more traditional manner, but until then i walk my own path. For the most part that is a solitary path as i have no Vodoun community where i live. However i am often among community in my travels and those are the times i enjoy most.
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Re: Solitary Vodou
Tue, August 18, 2009 - 11:24 AMDear Wedosi,
Thank you so very much for clarifying this information for us! I find this very interesting:
>, the key to what I am saying is wraped up in understanding the "spirits" themselves.
>They are at the "center" of vodun; and, they are the same today, yesterday and forever.
>They are "divine beings" and do not change! What has changed is us!
I love how you express this truth! I never quite thought of it that way before, but I do sense it is true.
Now, other people might call these “universal spirits” something different. They might call them "archetypical" Loas, as Nechesh has done....or perhaps simply “Aspects of the Divine All-That-Is,” as I like to say. Yes, all great religions and spiritual systems name these great Forces of Creation! (And, sometimes, of Stability and of Destruction).
Some people postulate that these “universal spirits” are descended from the Ancient Egyptian pantheon....however, I can see that each of these may have developed from different groups....yet still tapping into a the “Collective Unconscious,” as Karl Jung has named it.
I like how you said: “What has changed is us!” And that is so true. All these “universal spirits” are interpreted through so many diverse eyes! We perceive through our own individual perceptions. Add to this a family or tribal perception, and there is a wonderful “spice of life” in the way we approach the Divine Energies.
I love “universal spirits” that dance, that love, that have a sense of humor, that love food and all sensual pleasure! I love “universal spirits” that are passionate and fairly patient with us humans!
Ha ha!
Dear Wedosi, you wrote:
>I am AGASSOU.
How honored I feel that you would share this very personal information with us!!!
I really don’t know how to thank you enough.
One of my interests in Vodou is that I am writing a book that takes place in the Caribbean in the year 1713. At that time, some of the characters in the book know of Agassou...and yet there is a new expression of that energy....a Jaguar....a new world big cat! Different, of course, than Agassou, but also related!
This is one reason why I am so excited by this wonderful news you shared with us!!!
(I also feel a kinship with the big cats.)
Nechesh, my friend, has written:
>Loas such as the Marassa, Papa Legba, Damballah and Ayida Wedo,
>Ogou and others you will find in the Vodou tradition wherever it is found.
>They are deep at the root of the practice and often represent loftier concerns
>and ideals. Most of the Petwo spirits came about in Haiti, IMO, out of a dire
>need for more fiery and, perhaps, violent spirits that were to be of great importance
>to the revolution that threw off the chains of slavery there.
And I feel this is true, also. The Spirit of Life (whatever you call it!) is ultimately a CREATIVE SPIRIT that invents new ways to wield and temper its Energies and Forces. Our own creative minds are part of this invention!
I believe that the Petwo spirits also incorporate the hidden Ancestral Spirits of the Native American people on the island of Haiti. The Africans were wise enough to open to these Spirits and give them a way to express themselves.
Some say that Anger is an energy of the Gods....expressed, perhaps, in violent weather and earthly catastrophes, such as earthquakes, floods, and volcanos. One can also say that the Anger of a people who have been oppressed and disrespected can be found in violent actions that rip apart the very seams of an oppressive society/culture!
My own hope and prayer is that the great ENERGIES work with us, rather than against us. And this is all about how WE open to them and channel them in our lives.....not to turn them against each other, but to honor them and use them AS A TEAM OF CREATION to create a whole new world, where children are loved, safe and sound, and where we can all live in a way that allows full creative expression among ALL the people of the world.
Whew! I’ve been channeling a lot lately! Please excuse me for getting so intense!
Love and Respect to you all!!! -
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Re: Solitary Vodou
Tue, August 18, 2009 - 12:13 PMMaggie, if you we can't get "intense" here, then what is the point. ;-> -
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Re: Solitary Vodou
Tue, August 18, 2009 - 1:14 PM>Maggie, if you we can't get "intense" here, then what is the point. ;->
I thank you for that, Nechesh.
;-)
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Re: Solitary Vodou
Tue, August 18, 2009 - 4:29 PMThis is a fabulous post! I wish you well with your book! It sounds absolutely wonderful! I am pressed for time today; however, I would be happy to post photos of me in the AGASSOU temple in ABOMEY (Dahomey). The story of Agassou is very interesting. He is the founder of the FON people. The little children, Benin, West Africa, learn about this ancestor in the classrooms. If you are EVER interested I would be happy to arrange for you to visit our AGASSOU family temples in Benin, West Africa. My husband would be happy to host you at our temple and guide you. He is also AGASSOU! His father is the first person who greets you at the family shrines.
Wedosi -
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Re: Solitary Vodou
Wed, August 19, 2009 - 6:29 AMI don't know what to say, Wedosi! I would love to get to West Africa and to visit, for sure! You are so gracious to offer me such hospitality! I especially love your mention of "the little children" and your family! (My heart feels like it is expanding so much!!!) :-)
Yes Yes YES!!! Please post some photos....that would be great! (I have tears of joy in my eyes!!!) -
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Re: Solitary Vodou
Wed, August 19, 2009 - 10:01 AMOk Maggie, no problem! Give me a day or two; and, I will try to get them uploaded. I have several in photobucket! These same photos can also be seen in the Haitixchange: Benin Vodun/Haiti Vodou thread. However you would have to search for them. I have a couple of photos of my husband in the temple as well.
Wedosi -
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Re: Solitary Vodou
Thu, August 20, 2009 - 10:57 AMGuys, I'm sorry that the photos are a bit small. On photobucket they are very large and on HX they are huge. I will sit down this weekend and see if they can be made larger. Sorry, I am always in a hurry; but, hope to chat with you folks again soon. If not tomorrow over the weekend. Take care all!
Wedosi
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Re: Solitary Vodou
Thu, August 20, 2009 - 11:35 AMIntence is real cool' fly sister Maggie'
Light
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Mami Wata Fete 2009/Togo & Benin, West Africa
Fri, September 11, 2009 - 9:04 AMI am not sure if you guys are aware; but, the Mami Wata fete 2009 is being held at this time in West Africa. It generally runs from mid August to mid September in Togo and all over of the West Coast of Africa. Normally one may find photos of the event on the internet. I will see if anything has been posted on Youtube or somewhere and update you if I can. My temple is, of course, in attendance because my husband is the Supreme Chef du Vodun Mami Wata; but, the video equipment used is in something called PAL. I am not sure what he can post or those folks doing the taping will do. I am sure; however, with the many tourist from world over that someone will post something.
Wedosi -
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Re: Mami Wata Fete 2009/Togo & Benin, West Africa
Fri, September 11, 2009 - 9:24 AMI have not found the present fete; however, I did find something worth seeing... the ancestral journey of Mami Zogbe when she was in Togo. There are 4 parts. Part 1 is her preperations. Parts 2-4 allows you to see the African Mami Watas dance and sing. They are coming into the fete carrying their stools. This is the fete that we all attend. This is the African Mamai Wata. Are they not beautiful?!
www.youtube.com/watch
www.youtube.com/watch
www.youtube.com/watch
www.youtube.com/watch
Wedosi -
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Re: Mami Wata Fete 2009/Togo & Benin, West Africa
Fri, September 11, 2009 - 10:21 AMYes, VERY beautiful! I love the dance with the arms churning, churning.......churning the waters of life? :-D
Thank you.....
I'm thinking that in the days of slavery in North America, the children would call the women who took care of them "Mammy." It gladdens my heart to know that, thought they THOUGHT they were simply calling her something like "Mommy," they were REALLY calling her "Queen."!!!
:-D Because that's what she was ! -
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Re: Mami Wata Fete 2009/Togo & Benin, West Africa
Fri, September 11, 2009 - 11:31 AMThe dances are very specific. There are 41 spirits in the Mami Wata pantheon of vodun. Each spirit has it's own particular dance(s). The dances that you see are specific to that particular vodun. The singer will start out singing about a particular vodun and the vodunsi will then dance the dances of that vodun. In addition. Each set of pearls that a vodunsi wears denote a particular vodun that the vodunsi has been born to. The vodun dances are learned during initiation. People wearing white with their heads covered are vodunsi. The spirits ride them and they serve the vodun. People wearing white with unusual head pieces etc. with stools and an extra cloth covering their left shoulder are priest/priestesses. People with no head covering have not undergone full initiation yet. The dances that I see in the video are for the voduns ayidowedo and Mami Wata.
Wedosi
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Re: Solitary Vodou
Sat, September 12, 2009 - 2:53 AMMiss Wedosi, running a search on google using the terms "PAL converter" will show several sites bearing a program capable of converting the PAL file into something different. I'm not really sure which is most reliable though... if any. :[ Good luck!