Drums

topic posted Wed, March 4, 2009 - 9:16 AM by  Nechesh
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Are there any other drummers here that have studied Haitian and other Afro-Caribbean rhythms? I studied with John Amira in NYC for about 8 years before i left there. For me drums, songs and movement unite in a magickal formula that helps to open the gateway and let spirit interact with us on the material plane. I know this isn't much of a discussion topic so far, but i would love to know who else here offers their service to the spirits through the drum and whatever thoughts they might have on the subject.
posted by:
Nechesh
Cincinnati
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  • Re: Drums

    Fri, March 6, 2009 - 10:22 AM
    OK, i'm a little surprised that there has been zero response to this thread. I have been searching back and haven't found any other posts on drums yet. Isn't this a subject that should be of interest here? Drums are what led me to Vodou in the first place. Is this anyone elses experience? I know that ritual can be and often is done without drums, but isn't more ideal with? Anyone out there? ;-)
  • Re: Drums

    Fri, March 6, 2009 - 10:38 AM
    Greetings, Nechesh. I am not a drummer, but from what I understand, it is the drummer that changes the "vibrations" that signal the different Loas appearance in our dimension. I am writing a story which had a drummer in it, and I would love to understand how a drummer "sees" the vibrations in a Vodou ceremony.

    I have an old book called __Voudoun Fire__ by Melita Denning, with photos by Osborne Phillips.
    www.amazon.com/Voudoun-Fi.../0875421865

    If you can find a copy of this book, you might be interested in the FANTASTIC photos taken by Phillips of the drummers in the pictured ceremonies. The Lights show the presence of Spirit and it seems to me that they are almost kissing and caressing the Drummers!!!

    Is it difficult to tell when to switch rhythms? Does the Vodou Priest or Priestess give you a signal to switch....or is the Loas who "signal"? Do you feel that the rhythmic changes actually change (transform) the energy in the place....or do you feel you are merging the rhythms with the rhythms of the place?

    As you see, I'm not sure what to ask....and only have a rudimentary understanding of what you do. But I feel I have been a drummer in other lives....sometimes my hands will start drumming of their own accord! But I am quite dyslexic and sometimes lose the rhythm if I am drumming in a class or simply for my own meditation. Still, I feel it powerfully!
    • Re: Drums

      Fri, March 6, 2009 - 12:36 PM
      Hi Maggie. Thanks for responding. I will definitely look into this book. I am especially interested because photography is what i do so there is a double draw here.
      I will try to address your questions, but first some qualifying statements. I am hardly an authority here. I was drawn to the path of the drum over 20 years ago and it has led me many beautiful places. Drumming is very often a ritual experience for me, but i have never had the opportunity to drum for a Haitian style ceremony. I have drummed with the New Orleans Voodoo Temple on a few occassions as well as the Niagra Voodoo Shrine, but the rhythms used by these groups are completely different from the Haitian ones i studied in NYC, which are much more complex. The change of rhythms with these groups is not seamless in my experience and the Mambo made it perfectly clear vocally that we were moving from one Lwa to another. AFAIK, in Haitian ceremonies the Mambo or Houngan signals the switch, usually through the ason.
      I can say without question that changes in rhythm undoubtably do change the energy of a space. The rhythms for the different Lwas often have very different character to them, a different vibration.
      I have drummed ritually in many different circumstances and traditions. As i think we are all aware, the Neo-Pagan movement has pretty much absorbed afro-percussive practices into their own and i have done much drumming in these realms as well. I can say that where ever i have been where the drums get cooking and the dancer start moving Spirit arrives. Whether these are the same spirits as the Lwas is debatable. Sometimes i am sure they are. Sometimes they are something else all together. It does seem to me that the more specific the rhythms are the more likely it is that specific spirits will arrive. There is definitely a different feeling one gets when playing a specific part in ensemble. I can even feel this when playing these rhythms in the context of a dance class where no ritual is intended. The free-form drumming of Neo-pagan communities can't always guarantee the same results like a set ensemble piece like Yanvalou or Makanda can produce. Still, drumming and dancing even in these improvisational forms can still raise enormous power and draw in the spirits.
      • Re: Drums

        Fri, March 6, 2009 - 1:01 PM
        >It does seem to me that the more specific the rhythms are the more likely it is that specific spirits will arrive.
        Yes! I have intuited that this is so! And it makes a lot of sense that a Spirit would respond to its own individual rhythm!

        I feel like the drums can actually change the dimensional vibration, creating doorways and openings through which the Spirits arrive and depart. It's like a Sacred Geometry. I bet a skilled Mambo could weave these rhythms for her community so well! I would love to experience this!

        >the Niagra Voodoo Shrine
        Wow....I never heard of this Shrine but I bet it is very wonderful! I have experienced great Spiritual Power at Niagra and have known of the powerful portal existing there! There is a "rainbow dragon" there, for sure! :-D And a sweet female spirit in the mists...............

        BTW, I'm not sure I described the photos in that Denning/Osbourne book very well. Here are some other descriptions, and I will post 2 of the photos (you can see the energies merging with the drums...)

        --------------------------
        Some of the most compelling recent evidence for inexplicable physical effects is the extraordinary series of photographs taken in Haiti by an American visitor, Gloria Rudolph, while attending a voodoo ceremony. Her films, minutely scrutinised by experts, reveal the presence of spaghetti-like streams of light weaving among the dancers, yet not visible at the time to herself or to other observers. Some of the dancers appear partially dematerialised - an effect that would be difficult to fake. Similar effects have been recorded since 1973 by a London spiritualist medium, Gladys Hayter.

        from: leebor2.100webspace.net/dimension1.html

        __Voudoun Fire: The Living Reality of Mystical Religion__ by Melita Denning & Osborne Phillips. This large-format book has some interesting line drawings and info. It's focus is on amateur photos from Voodoo ceremonies taken by Gloria Rudolph that show amazing strings and ribbons of "fire" swirling around participants. Apparently this swirling light wasn't visible during the ceremony and the photos are undoctored.

        www.geocities.com/BourbonSt...Books.html
        • Re: Drums

          Fri, March 6, 2009 - 1:41 PM
          Niagra Voodoo Shrine: profile.myspace.com/index.cfm
          Yes, they are very aware of the Rainbow Dragon that lives behind the falls. ;-)
          Thanks for the other links. I am forever the skeptic and know that i could easily reproduce the effect of the light trails that are shown around the drummers and dancers in that night shot. The flash freezes the action while a long exposure captures ambient light trails. I do this all the time in my own photography. Of course this doesn't mean that i don't believe that such energies are there. I am just doubtful that this is a photograph of them.
          Saw Selena in your photo section. Have you been to Wisteria? Perhaps we have met before. :-)
          • Re: Drums

            Thu, March 12, 2009 - 12:19 PM
            I dunno, perhaps i am being too demanding or expect too much. I would have thought that with over 350 tribe members here that Vodou drums would be a topic that would receive just a little more interest. (Thanks Maggie for at least treading the waters ;-)). I've gone back over the archives and this is hardly a subject that has been talked about much, if at all, on this forum. What gives? The drum and it's rhythms seems to me to be of the utmost cultural importance to Vodoun and other African based religious societies. So why all the silence here? I can't really believe that no one other than myself and Maggie have any interest in this subject. We are on the internet, so it can't be my breathe ;-).
            BTW, i have added some new photo to my profile that are drumming related. Maybe some of them can serve as a stepping point for discussion.
            • Re: Drums

              Sat, March 21, 2009 - 1:50 PM
              tribe.net has consistently crumbled over the last few months, often being inaccessible for days at at time. tribe also moves slower than myspace or facebook. i think its popularity is waning.

              my guess is also that many people see the word voodoo, think it's cool, and list it as one of their tribes, and don't ever post here. most of what i've seen in the different orisha/afro-cuban/etc forums are disagreements, neophytes seeking advice, and flame wars, unfortunately.

              as far as drumming, i have only a little experience with afrocuban rhythms, having studied bata a bit in boston and in north carolina. i'm curious to learn more, but it's difficult to meet the right people (especially when one moves from state to state as i do) and i can't see learning bata from a book.

              if you know of any good foundations to check out (like i think someone recommended milton cardena's cds to me) that would be appreciated.
              • Re: Drums

                Tue, March 24, 2009 - 5:22 PM
                Hey Papillon. Very cool that you studied a little bata. I never did any with my teacher, though he is very good at it. It is, of course, somewhat different from Haitian Vodou drumming is both rhythm and technique. Who did you study with in Boston? I know a few folks there.
                Yes, Milton Cardona 's Bembe is a great CD for bata and orisha stuff. And i think you are right, you can't really learn bata from a book, but you do already have some foundation. My teacher, John Amira, wrote a book with Steven Cornelius called The Music of Santeria. If you read music you might find this a really helpful book. There are dozens of musical notations for specific rhythms for each Orisha. Actually, even if you don't it is still helpful.. Comes with a CD. :-)
  • Re: Drums

    Tue, March 24, 2009 - 8:21 AM
    A question for drummers: Do you ever feel "ridden" by the spirits....? Or do you feel like you are channeling? What value does trance have to your drumming?

    As a drummer, do you always follow someone's lead? Do you ever take the lead?

    Have you ever felt like you were taking a spirit journey while drumming? How do you "come home" and ground?
    • Re: Drums

      Tue, March 24, 2009 - 3:59 PM
      I am sure i will get some arguments here, mostly from people whose experience is outside the realm of Vodou drumming, but it is not considered at all good if a drummer is ridden and a possessed drummer will quickly be taken out of the ensemble. Trance drumming is a shamanistic technique usually done with one drummer doing lone spirit journeying or perhaps in a Native American style where a group of drummers are all playing one large drum on the same down beat. It is very effective in these settings, but trancing while playing poly-rhythms is not IMO a very good idea if you want to keep the rhythm together. This is not to say that i do not feel an energy flowing through me when i play and it is sorta like a high, but i never feel like i need to "come home". When i am playing i am "home". ;-)
      Grounding afterwards is not a bad idea though. Often just lying on the earth for a few minutes if all i need. And drink lots of water, all the way through.
      I have played all parts in ensemble drumming, that is to say bell, boula, sécond and maman (lead). In Haitian rhythms generally the boula sets a steady pace (often on the up beat), the sécond provided the basic rhythm and engages is "conversations" with the maman. The maman plays the lead patterns and breaks.
      Now in open drumming experience when i am playing djembe i often take the lead, though it is best when there are other experienced drummers that you can trade off with and have conversations with. But this idea of "leading" is complicated really. Sometimes the drummers lead the dances, but sometimes it's the other way around. A good drummer learns to watch the dancers and "mark" the dancer's steps, sometime anticipating them.
      In Vodou drumming the lead drummer also does this. It is, of course, the job of the ensemble to bring on possession. When a lead drummer sees someone on the verge of possession they will usually call the break. The break is a radical change in the character of the rhythm and it is devised to push the person on the verge all the way into possession.

      • Re: Drums

        Wed, March 25, 2009 - 10:27 AM
        Wow, Nechesh, that is really interesting! It comforts me, somehow, to know that the drummers must have a strong ability to remain un-possessed. I'm sure that gives the participants (and the Mambo or Houngan) a great feeling of security. It seems to me that the drummers are really essential to the vodou experience and that it is very different than the shamanic trance technique. The drummers must be great observers of the dancers, so (it seems) must be SUPER-aware.

        The drummer in my story (that I am writing) is a strong-minded person and also a member of a secret society that is adjunct to the Vodou group. It takes place in 1713 and the Vodou people are a group of freed slaves and mixed-Native people who live in the mountains of St. Domingue (Haiti, as it was called then). Since it is just the beginning of Vodou as we know it, it is a real mix of different cultures....mostly West African, of course. There are also Pirates involved....

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