All is reflection' offerings and food are very very important indeed !!

You have to give to receive :)))

Each Loa has their own attributes' their own likes and dislikes'
Feed them and feed your ancestors'

Nsala Malekun

Nobu +

I agree with Nobu. Offerings, as are sacrifices, are very important to the spirits. While the spirits are creators of all things there are still certain things that they require in order to work for you. Believe it or not....blood scarifices are taken by nature more than we know. For it is the blood of the human being that is the ultimate sacrifice. Thus, these devastating natural disasters are actually blood sacrifices given up to the gods or spirits. Floods, fires and other disasters, that take life, are not unintentional... I am sorry to say. Humans are just not aware of it.

Wedosi

Nechesh wrote:
>Sacrifices come when we make something sacred by offering it to deity.

I agree. I love this quote from Leilah Tiesh:

“I find myself happier and happier as I get older. I am simply freer of conditions. This entails making voluntary sacrifices. Sacrifice comes from the words ‘to make sacred.’ My shamanic life is a whole life of making sacred, seeing everything as sacred… Even garbage is sacred.”

When I went to make an offering to this certain Loa (Mami Wata) I felt that She was saying to me (in all Her aspects): "Take care of my ocean." I felt that She (in all Her aspects) was asking me to work to keep her ocean clean and healthy and full of life. THAT was the "offering" She wanted me to give.

She tells me that we are all a Part of the Planet Earth's Atmosphere and Weather system. I know, from my own experiences, from connecting with Gaia (Earth) and from reading Jane Roberts' book __The Individual and the Nature of Mass Events__ that we are (each of us!) part of the Planetary System. Natural events like floods, earthquakes, tsunamis, etc. are not done out of punishment.

I remember Jerry Falwell saying that New Orleans got flooded because of the immorality of the people there. That is NOT something that Nature does. There ARE reasons these things occur....and if you read Jane Roberts' book, you can get an idea of how these are experienced. (It's too long to go into here)

You can read some of her book here:
www.scribd.com/doc/138969...mass-events

Suffice it to say, we attract to us (are are attracted to) events that serve to challenge us and change our consciousness, hopefully, for the better. We all "create" these mass events together.

I guess we're getting down to the nature of the human being here. What are we, really? What potential do we have?

There are different "levels" of Spiritual Connection between Humans and other Dimensional Beings. We can only connect ON THE LEVEL on which we usually operate!!! (one could also say that we can only access the Spiritual Dimension through chakras that are open and functioning healthily.)

One book that I found helpful in 'discerning' Spirits (and Lwa's) is __Initiation: A Woman's Spiritual Adventure in the Heart of the Andes__ by Elizabeth B. Jenkins. In this book, Ms. Jenkins describes her spiritual quest in the Andes, and how she progressed from a worldview that was dominant/submissive to one that was more egalitarian. As a family therapist herself, she had a unique view of Spirit-Human relationships and she had a 'feel' for when they became dysfunctional. She explains her own spiritual lessons and how she went from a child-level to an adult-level in functioning on the spiritual plane.

In Ms. Jenkins' perspective (as well as mine) one becomes a member of a FAMILY of both human and spiritual beings. A family works together for the good of all, and Spirits assist only if invited and welcomed. As the Spirits participate and prove themselves as allies, they become part of the family, too.

Following is a quote from Ms. Jenkins’ book. It is about her time in Peru, working with the “apu” spirits, who are a lot like the “loa” spirits. She was walking down a street in Cuzco (Calle Loretto), pondering about “right relationship” with the Apu’s.

“This street was almost completely intact from Inka times, with perfect Inka walls running along both sides. It still showed the niches where golden idols were said to have been kept. I was reminded of the greatness of the Inka civilization, and filled with the certainty that there had to be more to spirituality of this advanced culture than what I had experienced so far.

“As if in response to my thoughts, a figure appeared in one of the niches. It was a man with a fringed headdress. His skin was dark, his body large and powerful, and he had a regal bearing. This impressive figure radiated power, but his power was not frightening. It was controlled power. ‘Remember,’ he said, addressing me as a colleague, ‘it was the Inka who commanded the Apu’s, NOT the Apu’s who commanded the Inka.’ The figure instantly dissolved.

“‘Of course!’ I nearly yelled out loud with the impact of the sudden realization. Instinctively, it had bothered me from the very beginning that Ricard’s Apu’s told everyone what to do. But now, I understood my discomfort on all levels, psychologically, esoterically, and in my gut. You simply cannot let children run the zoo.

“As a therapist I had observed this family pattern frequently. If the children in a family are given too much power, the results are disastrous, because the parents’ power is weakened and the family system collapses. Similarly, if the children are ignored or mistreated, the family as a whole suffers when the child fails, or acts out in school. I postulated that undoubtedly this pattern must hold true for our own unconscious impulses as well. If we are directed by our lower impulses, chaos results; but if those same impulses are repressed, we lose our life force. Perhaps the trick was to make sure one’s life force was guided and channeled by a firm, directing consciousness. Of course these children are not bad or evil—they are simply in a role that is inappropriate.

“Therefore the forces of nature, the Apu’s, could not be in charge, as (the Priest) Ricardo’s Apu’s seemed to be. The EVOLVED HUMAN CONSCIOUSNESS (the “Inka”) was meant to direct and guide these forces of nature.

“Historically we had once been dominated by nature, at the mercy of overwhelming power. Then, Western society tried to dominate or repress nature in response to that experience of helplessness. In my culture, this had created a society of lifeless people, afraid of their bodies and their own spontaneous impulses. BUT NEITHER EXTREME WORKED. What was really needed was a strong, guiding hand that allowed the power of the unconscious to be used and channeled constructively. For Ricardo, clearly, things had somehow gotten out of hand. He was being ‘eaten’ by his own Apu’s.”

Eventually, Elizabeth was lucky enough to come into contact with a higher-level Priest by the name of Juan Nunez del Prado. Juan had been apprentice to the Quechua fourth-level Priest by the name of Don Benito Qoriwaman.

Juan explained: “Ricardo is an altomisayoq. As you know, that means ‘high priest’ in Quechua. But there are many varieties of high priest. The things you have described about him, the fighting and the conflict, the fear and the punishments of his Apu’s...these things all belong to the third level. A kurak akulleq is a Priest of the fourth level.”

Juan explains about the levels of Priesthood in this way:

“At the 3rd level, the Apus are seen as punishing. But do not confuse the master with the path. Ricardo’s Apus can only appear AS HIS LEVEL PERMITS. The transition from the 3rd to the 4th level is very important. At the 3rd level, the initiate encounters the invisible world and the forces there are experienced as frightening, indeed terrifying. You must learn to wrestle with them; you must learn to fight and conquer—your own fear. If not, you remain forever at the mercy of it, like Ricardo.

“The 4th level is a completely different state of mind. You become free, the Apus become your friends, and you learn to work in harmony with the invisible world. My Apus are sweet, charming. According to the prophecies, the transition from 3rd to the 4th level is the MOST IMPORTANT OCCURRENCE OF THIS TIME!”

These spiritual levels are UNIVERSAL. That is, they operate across ALL human cultures and families.

This is OUR time!!!! We are raising our LEVEL NOW!!!! :-D

I'm glad to see that Vodou Tribe is far from dead :].

I've read through the thread, and some interesting concepts were brought up. One in particular was the idea of the Lwa, Loa, Orisha, or just Spirits in general (whatever you wish to call them) forcibly taking sacrifices. And while the subject is more or less settled, I can't help but wonder -- could grieving be a form of sacrifice? Experiencing emotional pain, enduring that pain, and finally, reaching alleviation -- could that be "offered" in some way?

Also, if the "spirits" did indeed cause the hurricane, it sounds more akin to those within the Petro group... unless I've confuddled my ideas on which group was which.